RWBY & RT General Discussion Thread (V1)

Zam

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Possibly petty aside, but you know how lots of RWBY Critics act like minor animation gaffes are major signs of a problem?

Well it seems they're wrong and know little about the industry.

(There's a blank model that doesn't count as naked on the screen but spoilered anyway so your boss won't yell at you for looking at wire frame people at work)
 
Oldie but goldie. Jokes about Qrow being an unwilling dad will never stop being funny. XD


tumblr_p2vgm0x20z1wy8e32o2_1280.jpg
 

Pugman

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He kinda makes me think of Peter Parker from the Spider Verse film. IE, someone who needed a kid figure/figures in his life to help him overcome his own struggles.

And both have bad luck.
 
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Matrix Dragon

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So, random fandom thing I've noticed in regards to Ironwood. When they're not defending him as a Hard Man Making Hard Choices (While Hard), they claim that what really happened is that he's just 'Gone Insane'. Usually while trying to blame Ruby for it because of course. It's... FASCINATING how people work so hard to dismiss the insidious long term poison of dictatorships and fascism, even on those that start out with good intentions.
 

Pugman

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So, random fandom thing I've noticed in regards to Ironwood. When they're not defending him as a Hard Man Making Hard Choices (While Hard), they claim that what really happened is that he's just 'Gone Insane'. Usually while trying to blame Ruby for it because of course. It's... FASCINATING how people work so hard to dismiss the insidious long term poison of dictatorships and fascism, even on those that start out with good intentions.

Because people just want to blame the goody goody protagonist who has not "suffered the consequences of her actions". She is either not proactive enough ("not asking Ozpin about Silver Eyes back in Mistral") or not being in trouble for stuff like the Manta Heist and the Leviathan attack. And then with V7 itself there is the proclaimed "hypocrisy" of her keeping secrets from Ironwood ("just like Oz did from everyone") despite Ironwood being "open" with them and giving them various support "(lodgings in the academy, training with the Ace-Ops and Winter, and new outfits and equipment repairs").
At least that is the base line of arguments I seem to see.
 
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Matrix Dragon

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Because people just want to blame the goody goody protagonist who has not "suffered the consequences of her actions". She is either not proactive enough ("not asking Ozpin about Silver Eyes back in Mistral") or not being in trouble for stuff like the Manta Heist and the Leviathan attack. And then with V7 itself there is the proclaimed "hypocrisy" of her keeping secrets from Ironwood ("just like Oz did from everyone") despite Ironwood being "open" with them and giving them various support "(lodgings in the academy, training with the Ace-Ops and Winter, and new outfits and equipment repairs").
At least that is the base line of arguments I seem to see.

I was thinking more dismissing his actions as 'going insane'. Which demonstrates a poor understanding of insanity and mental health in general. Ironwood has PTSD, to the point of having hallucinations on-screen once. He has paranoid delusions, trust issues... none of which has anything to do with the fact that his actions since his first appearance have had visible contempt for civilian authority and a willingness to force laws until they break.
 

Pugman

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I was thinking more dismissing his actions as 'going insane'. Which demonstrates a poor understanding of insanity and mental health in general. Ironwood has PTSD, to the point of having hallucinations on-screen once. He has paranoid delusions, trust issues... none of which has anything to do with the fact that his actions since his first appearance have had visible contempt for civilian authority and a willingness to force laws until they break.

Kinda makes one wish we knew the full details of the "Paladin Incident" as that is possibly a prime candidate for how Ironwood got his metal half. I'd say losing a large chunk of your body would be enough to at least start issues, and then The Fall would push that further.
Sadly I think the Paladin Incident will remain as RWBY's "Noodle Incident".
 
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Zam

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Ironwood evokes a lot of confused and intense feels from many fans I think in part cos he is a very a-typical example of Authoritarianism/fascism in that like Atlas itself he is very much closer to an American version of such things over the "traditional" Nazis's and stormtroopers, evil foreign empire types of Authoritarianism/fascism that people are used to.

Adding to that he also implicitly evokes but then serves as a take down of ideas seen in culture and media like the "Great man of history" and the "Good King" with RT basically saying "No one should have this kind of unchecked power, even someone well intentioned." Which contrasts a lot of media where-in its fin to have a king, or despot, or Fire Lord so long as they are "good".
 
link

God this looks gorgeous. I can't wait for this show, Mistral seems like such an interesting Kingdom:
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The marketing has placed a lot of emphasis on the crime ridden underbelly part of Mistral but I hope the campaign also shows off the fine art, culture and creativity part of the Kingdom. Cuz Mistral isn't just the place full of bad guys, it's also the Kingdom of GLAM! 🤩



They forgot the No-Faunus sign in Mantle and more importantly Adam and Sienna's rise to power in the White Fang and their supplanting Ghira stemming from them fighting of a literal lynch mob that tried to murder a ton of peaceful White Fang members just for passing through the area near their town while on the road.


Ironwood evokes a lot of confused and intense feels from many fans I think in part cos he is a very a-typical example of Authoritarianism/fascism in that like Atlas itself he is very much closer to an American version of such things over the "traditional" Nazis's and stormtroopers, evil foreign empire types of Authoritarianism/fascism that people are used to.

Adding to that he also implicitly evokes but then serves as a take down of ideas seen in culture and media like the "Great man of history" and the "Good King" with RT basically saying "No one should have this kind of unchecked power, even someone well intentioned." Which contrasts a lot of media where-in its fin to have a king, or despot, or Fire Lord so long as they are "good".
On a semi-related note I found this when looking at the Grimm Campaign tweet.
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Pugman

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gonna play "devil's advocate" by giving my thoughts on what I think people are after.
they need characters to actively get dirty looks and be treated differently by those who normally are nice.
like if someone is talking nice and normal to say Coco, and then Velvet comes up and the other person just looks at the ears before giving Velvet a dirty look and then gives a remark before leaving. that is at least the bare minimum of the type I see some "people" wanting. they want it more actively present and from more then just those we already know are dicks (Cardin and Roman).
they want more dirty looks, more harsh comments, and maybe some stuff occasionally thrown, because to them when you put such a big topic like "race" in the narrative they expect it to be a bit bigger and a touch more noticeable.
and all this is on top of an audience that already has trouble seeing the subtext, reading between lines, and just general understanding of these things and the mindset of the show creators.


both "show, don't tell" and "death of the author" can go suck it.

EDIT:
for another topic here is my two cents on RWBY VS ACEOPS;
So many haters think that RWBY only because of "Power of Friendship BS" and thus mark it as "Bar writing, but it was not the "power of friendship" alone.
Yes it was set up that the aces are awesome and skilled, but what did we also see at the close of their debut fight? Ruby making the save in time by grabbing that dust crystal. After that mission Harriet brought up how they aren't friends but "trust" that they have each other's back. Then we eventually get a montage of how Ruby and friends end up spending a few weeks in Atlas. They are doing missions and training under the guidance of the aces. During the invasion we see Ruby and friends working right alongside the aces as equals, and again we see Ruby's quick thinking save Harriet's ass. And finally in Ironwood's office and then into the fight itself we see Team RWBY united. They are on the same page. Meanwhile the aces' minds are rattled and their unity is put off their game. Marrow clearly is uncertain about things, Harriet has tunnel vision on Ruby, and Vine and Elm (the only members who managed to stick together) are clearly not on the same page.
We got set up (the entire mine mission), the build up (the training montage and the invasion), and the pay off (war in the academy).

other arguments are "Ace-ops don't act like real special forces" "real special forces don't underestimate their opponents" "they forced the fables"
 
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Zam

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Ooooh thanks for linking these, I love the aesthetic and vibes, it'd be awesome to see more of Mistral!

They forgot the No-Faunus sign in Mantle and more importantly Adam and Sienna's rise to power in the White Fang and their supplanting Ghira stemming from them fighting of a literal lynch mob that tried to murder a ton of peaceful White Fang members just for passing through the area near their town while on the road.
I thought they mentioned the no Faunus sign? But yeah those too, I sometimes wonder if this is a bit like what some fans want for traumatized characters, which is essentially misery porn where their trauma is "Always" present and debilitating?

On a semi-related note I found this when looking at the Grimm Campaign tweet.
Bloodraven is always out there serving tea and for that we owe them a salute!

gonna play "devil's advocate" by giving my thoughts on what I think people are after.
they need characters to actively get dirty looks and be treated differently by those who normally are nice.
like if someone is talking nice and normal to say Coco, and then Velvet comes up and the other person just looks at the ears before giving Velvet a dirty look and then gives a remark before leaving. that is at least the bare minimum of the type I see some "people" wanting. they want it more actively present and from more then just those we already know are dicks (Cardin and Roman).
they want more dirty looks, more harsh comments, and maybe some stuff occasionally thrown, because to them when you put such a big topic like "race" in the narrative they expect it to be a bit bigger and a touch more noticeable.
and all this is on top of an audience that already has trouble seeing the subtext, reading between lines, and just general understanding of these things and the mindset of the show creators.


both "show, don't tell" and "death of the author" can go suck it.
Oh I definitely agree there could be more and or it could be more weaved in, I think the post is mostly just trying to highlight that it's far more present than some give it credit for.

EDIT:
for another topic here is my two cents on RWBY VS ACEOPS;
So many haters think that RWBY only because of "Power of Friendship BS" and thus mark it as "Bar writing, but it was not the "power of friendship" alone.
Yes it was set up that the aces are awesome and skilled, but what did we also see at the close of their debut fight? Ruby making the save in time by grabbing that dust crystal. After that mission Harriet brought up how they aren't friends but "trust" that they have each other's back. Then we eventually get a montage of how Ruby and friends end up spending a few weeks in Atlas. They are doing missions and training under the guidance of the aces. During the invasion we see Ruby and friends working right alongside the aces as equals, and again we see Ruby's quick thinking save Harriet's ass. And finally in Ironwood's office and then into the fight itself we see Team RWBY united. They are on the same page. Meanwhile the aces' minds are rattled and their unity is put off their game. Marrow clearly is uncertain about things, Harriet has tunnel vision on Ruby, and Vine and Elm (the only members who managed to stick together) are clearly not on the same page.
We got set up (the entire mine mission), the build up (the training montage and the invasion), and the pay off (war in the academy).

other arguments are "Ace-ops don't act like real special forces" "real special forces don't underestimate their opponents" "they forced the fables"
Interesting topic to be sure!
As it is, I recall some analysts noting that while they thought the Ace-Ops were 'impressive' they weren't blown away by them either, pointing out how before Clover showed up they nearly collapsed the mine on their heads and I think another noted that the Ace-Ops may just be the "best" willing to sell out to Ironwood as well. Similarly its been noted that RWBY & Co have been marching across Anima & I often noted in the past that all of RWBY were exceptional from the start, in comparison how much hard work do the Ace-Ops really do?
Seriously great breakdown on the fact RWBY are framed more or less as contemporaries to the Ace-Opsmore and more as the story goes on and then add in the Ace-Ops getting along like raptors shoved in a bag together VS their unity, yeah no contest, kudos there.

Pffft, I don't even take that kinda nonsense seriously even if it irks me. Special Forces tend to get hyped up RL, but suffice to say their rep is often exaggerated for propaganda purposes & they are usually going against people with much worse equipment. Not to get to real, but the USA recently tried to orchestra a coup in Venezuela and some of the super elite mercenaries with special forces training they sent in were tweeting, got found by local farmers and caught quick smart.
 

Matrix Dragon

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Go back to the Geist fight in the mines. Once Clover shows up and his luck semblance starts saving everyones asses, their entire fight style is 'dramatically call out someones name, that person does something fancy'. It's literally a PR fight. They're practically a performance act. Compare RWBY vs the Paladin way back in Volume 2. There, Ruby was calling out prearranged techniques they'd worked out ahead of time that had multiple people working together.
 
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Zam

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Go back to the Geist fight in the mines. Once Clover shows up and his luck semblance starts saving everyones asses, their entire fight style is 'dramatically call out someones name, that person does something fancy'. It's literally a PR fight. They're practically a performance act. Compare RWBY vs the Paladin way back in Volume 2. There, Ruby was calling out prearranged techniques they'd worked out ahead of time that had multiple people working together.
That's an interesting insight there, and meshes well with the fact they all basically seem to just rely on having a boss keep them ordered and otherwise are not as coordinated as they could be, interesting to see how professional RWBY are by comparison.

imagine combining this with RWBY

Oooh that fits RWBY very well, could make a great AMV, also just has me imagining someone with a Singing to enchance Aura Semblance pumping people up for the battle with Salem.
 

Pugman

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That's an interesting insight there, and meshes well with the fact they all basically seem to just rely on having a boss keep them ordered and otherwise are not as coordinated as they could be, interesting to see how professional RWBY are by comparison.


Oooh that fits RWBY very well, could make a great AMV, also just has me imagining someone with a Singing to enchance Aura Semblance pumping people up for the battle with Salem.

Semblance: Bardic Inspiration.
 
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Zam

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That video is great XD

Also yeah Robyn calling out his cowardice would rock.
any early thoughts on how volume 8 is going to lead into 9?
No idea sadly there's so many ways V8 could go that predicting V9 feels near impossible XD
 
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