Matrix Dragon
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Fuck Rhodes.
RWBY & RT General Discussion Thread (V1)
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Matrix Dragon
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Rhodes is a little bitch
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So here's an interesting thing about the Gods. When I read Fairy Tales of Remnant I was caught completely off guard by the reveal that the God of Light supposedly was the one that provided the gift of Choice. Granted partially this was because I did not know at the time that the God of Light made all the Relics instead of each god making 2 Relics attuned to their own domains.
But a lot of it was simply that Choice simply seemed like a much better choice for the God of Darkness. Light was the one who was all about following the rules, order and just seemed more knowledgeable in general. Meanwhile Darkness was far more impulsive, free spirited and willing to not just do whatever the hell he wanted but also help other people do what they wanted if they asked nicely. I'm still convinced that if Salem had either gone to him first or even been honest about seeking him out because his brother was a dickbag then he would have stood by his decision to revive Ozma instead of turning on Salem.
It just seemed more fitting too. After all Choice in the real world is pretty intristicly tied with the Problem of Evil. Like, evil is bad but if evil was never an option then free will couldn't exist. So the addition of Darkness to humans so that there was something else they could choose besides Light seemed like a better fit for the source of Choice.
And finally there is the design of the Relics that the God of Light made:
A bit odd for a God of Choice to put a bunch of slave imagery on their creations isn't it? Not to mention that while Jinn seems to have some degree of choice in how she interacts with people and their questions (or lack thereof) the narrative is strongly implying that she and the other Relics have no choice but to follow the rules laid out for them.
If Salem asks Jinn a question then Jinn seemingly HAS to answer her question even if she really doesn't want to.
If someone takes the Staff of Creation and asks it do do X thing then it has to do X thing even if doing so means dropping one city onto another city and killing millions of people.
For that matter the limitations of the Relics seem extremely artificial and more rule based (as in "the lawmakers have decided that you are not allowed to do these things") than based on any naturally arising limitations in how much power they have or whatever. The Staff only being able to perform one task at once even when that task is lifting several moutain ranges+a city+bedrock instead of just doing a bunch of less energy intensive tasks feels very much like something someone in charge decided on rather than a true practical limitation.
Now the thing is. The Fairy Tales of Remnant are interesting. But they are not supposed to be cold hard facts. In fact most of them are explicetly straight up not true, or at least get a ton of stuff wrong. Because they're in-universe legends composed by fallible people who don't have all the facts and so insert their own ideas, biases and best guesses.
So it's quite possible that the legends are wrong and Choice actually didn't come from Light. In which case the fact that Light made all the Relics gave me an idea for a unifying theme for the Relic spirits. All of the spirits could be mythological creatures that were at some point chained down and enslaved for refusing to submit to the gods.
Jinn already fits the bill on that one to a tee.
Choice and Creation I'm less sure how would be played up.
But Destruction? I recently remembered a perfect fit for that who would work even better than my previous guess of Lady of the Lake / Surtur.
Fenrir by baklaher on DeviantArt
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If something from Norse Mythology would be used I figured it must be Surtr, because he is a great big fire giant that helps destroy the world with his extremely famous sword of destruction. But then I remembered that Fenrir is actually also associated with swords and in a way much closer to how Jinni are assocaited with lamps.
A Jinn was trapped inside a lamp like a prison, Fenrir had a sword shoved into his mouth to prevent him from breaking free after being chained down. If there are any crowns or staffs that held important roles in imprisoning (physically or spiritually) mythological beings/figures then we might have a good guess of who the other two Relics are. Assuming this theory of mine isn't off base that is.
It could be that Light really is Choice. In which case nevermind I suppose?
OK I gotta say I loved all of this.
I was never sure about Darkness being involved given Light have the mission but your reasoning was solid.
Even if he was not, I think both these additional reads tie in very well and make it work really well.
The slavery image and seemingly arbitrary limits honestly fit Light very well, especially the latter given the whole balance of life and death thing seems to just be part of the experiment over something natural that violating causes problems and the overall use of chains could come back really well.
Similarly the idea that the Relics are being like the gods but weaker who were bound and chained is a legit awesome idea and would do a lot to explain the unique design, kudos!
So here's an interesting thing about the Gods. When I read Fairy Tales of Remnant I was caught completely off guard by the reveal that the God of Light supposedly was the one that provided the gift of Choice. Granted partially this was because I did not know at the time that the God of Light made all the Relics instead of each god making 2 Relics attuned to their own domains.
But a lot of it was simply that Choice simply seemed like a much better choice for the God of Darkness. Light was the one who was all about following the rules, order and just seemed more knowledgeable in general. Meanwhile Darkness was far more impulsive, free spirited and willing to not just do whatever the hell he wanted but also help other people do what they wanted if they asked nicely. I'm still convinced that if Salem had either gone to him first or even been honest about seeking him out because his brother was a dickbag then he would have stood by his decision to revive Ozma instead of turning on Salem.
It just seemed more fitting too. After all Choice in the real world is pretty intristicly tied with the Problem of Evil. Like, evil is bad but if evil was never an option then free will couldn't exist. So the addition of Darkness to humans so that there was something else they could choose besides Light seemed like a better fit for the source of Choice.
And finally there is the design of the Relics that the God of Light made:
A bit odd for a God of Choice to put a bunch of slave imagery on their creations isn't it? Not to mention that while Jinn seems to have some degree of choice in how she interacts with people and their questions (or lack thereof) the narrative is strongly implying that she and the other Relics have no choice but to follow the rules laid out for them.
If Salem asks Jinn a question then Jinn seemingly HAS to answer her question even if she really doesn't want to.
If someone takes the Staff of Creation and asks it do do X thing then it has to do X thing even if doing so means dropping one city onto another city and killing millions of people.
For that matter the limitations of the Relics seem extremely artificial and more rule based (as in "the lawmakers have decided that you are not allowed to do these things") than based on any naturally arising limitations in how much power they have or whatever. The Staff only being able to perform one task at once even when that task is lifting several moutain ranges+a city+bedrock instead of just doing a bunch of less energy intensive tasks feels very much like something someone in charge decided on rather than a true practical limitation.
Now the thing is. The Fairy Tales of Remnant are interesting. But they are not supposed to be cold hard facts. In fact most of them are explicetly straight up not true, or at least get a ton of stuff wrong. Because they're in-universe legends composed by fallible people who don't have all the facts and so insert their own ideas, biases and best guesses.
So it's quite possible that the legends are wrong and Choice actually didn't come from Light. In which case the fact that Light made all the Relics gave me an idea for a unifying theme for the Relic spirits. All of the spirits could be mythological creatures that were at some point chained down and enslaved for refusing to submit to the gods.
Jinn already fits the bill on that one to a tee.
Choice and Creation I'm less sure how would be played up.
But Destruction? I recently remembered a perfect fit for that who would work even better than my previous guess of Lady of the Lake / Surtur.
Fenrir by baklaher on DeviantArt
If something from Norse Mythology would be used I figured it must be Surtr, because he is a great big fire giant that helps destroy the world with his extremely famous sword of destruction. But then I remembered that Fenrir is actually also associated with swords and in a way much closer to how Jinni are assocaited with lamps.
A Jinn was trapped inside a lamp like a prison, Fenrir had a sword shoved into his mouth to prevent him from breaking free after being chained down. If there are any crowns or staffs that held important roles in imprisoning (physically or spiritually) mythological beings/figures then we might have a good guess of who the other two Relics are. Assuming this theory of mine isn't off base that is.
It could be that Light really is Choice. In which case nevermind I suppose?
Well we'll have to wait till we see the other Relic Spirits to see if your theory of slave imagery pans out
Put as for a Crown that makes one submit? That would be the crown worn by Son Wukong the Monkey King. After being freed from being pinned under a mountain he had to wear a headpiece that would serve as his leash. All the monk had to do was say a word and the crown would constrict the monkey's skull. That is basically the only crown of myth/fable that I am familiar with that makes the wearer submit.
A more modern example is seen in League of Legends with the Cosmic Star Forger dragon, Aurelian Sol. One random day a random people on a random planet gifted him a big fancy crown. Sol, being the arrogant narcissist that he is, put the crown on and went on his way, only to feel it tug him back to the planet. Turns out these people, the Targonians, wanted use the might of the Star Forger for themselves, and the crown would be his leash. Despite all his power he could not fight against this and for ages was forced to serve them.
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Oh man, I completely fail to consider the Monkey King because there already is a Sun Wukong in the show. But we already have like 3 Dorothy-ies and a bunch of other Fairy Tales that are playing double/triple duty with various characters so it would not be strange at all for there to be two characters based on the Monkey King.
It's not like RWBY would be the first anime to do that anyway:
And the Sun Wukong would be so perfect for that role. Aside from the whole enslavement thing that already makes Choice into a very poignant theme for him the Journey to the West is filled with various points where the Monkey King ditches the quest and has to decide between staying at home with the comforting and familiar or going back completing the quest after all.
I'm sure if you looked around you could find something about prophecies or seeing the future or whatever in the JttW as well, possibly even specifically in regards to Sun Wukong.
But yeah, no point getting too speculative on this until we've seen the spirit of the Staff (if it even has a spirit). And man I know it makes the most sense to save that for the end of the volume.... But man I feel like Ruby and those Grimm:
The staff is sooooo CLOSE! Yet so far away and I just can't grasp it. I have no idea what it's spirit could be and I'm dying to find out. I really want to see more of what it's deal is. What it's Vault looks like, what the spirit references, why Creation is represented by a Staff specifically instead of some other creation based tool like a paintbrush or a pen or something.
Oh man, I completely fail to consider the Monkey King because there already is a Sun Wukong in the show. But we already have like 3 Dorothy-ies and a bunch of other Fairy Tales that are playing double/triple duty with various characters so it would not be strange at all for there to be two characters based on the Monkey King.
It's not like RWBY would be the first anime to do that anyway:
And the Sun Wukong would be so perfect for that role. Aside from the whole enslavement thing that already makes Choice into a very poignant theme for him the Journey to the West is filled with various points where the Monkey King ditches the quest and has to decide between staying at home with the comforting and familiar or going back completing the quest after all.
I'm sure if you looked around you could find something about prophecies or seeing the future or whatever in the JttW as well, possibly even specifically in regards to Sun Wukong.
But yeah, no point getting too speculative on this until we've seen the spirit of the Staff (if it even has a spirit). And man I know it makes the most sense to save that for the end of the volume.... But man I feel like Ruby and those Grimm:
The staff is sooooo CLOSE! Yet so far away and I just can't grasp it. I have no idea what it's spirit could be and I'm dying to find out. I really want to see more of what it's deal is. What it's Vault looks like, what the spirit references, why Creation is represented by a Staff specifically instead of some other creation based tool like a paintbrush or a pen or something.
Well people speculate The Blue Fairy, who had a wand that made a puppet come to life and later became a real boy.
And Staff's are like wands and used by wizards and other magic folk who could make things and cast spells.
Sooooo.....eh?
Plus there are paintbrushes the size of people, too.
Matrix Dragon
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I had to share this:
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Interesting theory:
I feel like this could work. Winter is out in the tundra already, The Hound has kidnapped a main character already, Cinder is going to Atlas to get Watts and the point of the hack was to force Penny to the vault. If Winter saves Penny then the show can keep up the efficient story beats it has had going for the last couple of volumes by having a character developing fight with the Tundra Team & Hound before Winter brings Penny back to the Vault where Watts and Cinder will likely be lying in wait since Watts likely won't feel the need to track Penny's current location when he knows where she will be in the future.
I feel like this could work. Winter is out in the tundra already, The Hound has kidnapped a main character already, Cinder is going to Atlas to get Watts and the point of the hack was to force Penny to the vault. If Winter saves Penny then the show can keep up the efficient story beats it has had going for the last couple of volumes by having a character developing fight with the Tundra Team & Hound before Winter brings Penny back to the Vault where Watts and Cinder will likely be lying in wait since Watts likely won't feel the need to track Penny's current location when he knows where she will be in the future.
While not sure Penny will make it to the Vault I can totally see the rest working well and believably and the overall sequence seems likely, kudos there.
Also Speaking of Winter:
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Harriet is not that short you guys. It's the other aces that are freakishly tall.
Matrix Dragon
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That's exactly what a short person would say!
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ᛚᛟᚲᛁ ᚱᚢᛚᛖᛋ ᚨᚾᛞ ᚦᛟᚱ ᛞᚱᛟᛟᛚᛊ
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Cinder seemed genuinely disgusted by Raven's murder of the previous Spring Maiden. Probably touched a nerve there considering her own experience with Rhodes. It makes me wonder how she's going to react to seeing Penny being brainwashed/shock therapied into following Ironwood's commands, another superior and guardian figure betraying a young woman under his care.
so basically a hope for this between Oscar/Penny/Winter to Cinder/Emerald? A plea to be better, to be "kind?"
Cinder seemed genuinely disgusted by Raven's murder of the previous Spring Maiden. Probably touched a nerve there considering her own experience with Rhodes. It makes me wonder how she's going to react to seeing Penny being brainwashed/shock therapied into following Ironwood's commands, another superior and guardian figure betraying a young woman under his care.
At most it will further her disgust of Watts, but not much beyond that given how she views Penny.
Harriet is baby,She's 5'7! That's not short!
On one hand she'd not see it as a surprise & she hates Penny, on the other hand her background has been on her mind recently and this will likely hit way too close to home.
Also I bring ya'll the meme: