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Synagogue Shooting in San Francisco
- Thread starter Comrade Sophia
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Hakazin
Member
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I've had some thoughts about this, and other recent shootings, rattling around in my head all day, and it's taken me a while to figure out how to express them. This is probably going to be long and rambly, and I'm going to skip on the usual 'Thoughts and Prayers', as it were, because you can assume that I'm as horrified as anyone else at this incident.
It's always been obvious in the case of the Republicans, what with them making noise about it being 'too soon' to discuss solutions and accusing the Democrats of being partisan for trying to introduce gun control legislation as a potential solution. The Democratic response, on the occasions where they have responded, has been to accuse the Republicans of being morally culpable in the shootings to some extent in their refusal to pass preventative legislation. These basic facts are not in dispute, I would think, even if you might dispute the implied moral judgement I'm making.
What has become more common, however, is that in the past few years as the motivations of these attacks (Which is nearly always White Fascism) get increasing exposure, the Democrats increasingly have begun to mirror the Republicans talking points when the left starts to criticize them on the basis of their refusal to actively deplatform the figures who spread the ideology that leads to these incidents.
After a shooting, any attempts at criticism and offering solutions (because let's be frank here, the left is in no place to introduce legislation) are shouted down with accusations of partisanship and 'taking advantage of a tragedy'. The implied statement being that the left wing only cares about 'scoring points', of taking advantage of the incident to push for their political goals.
Which is, of course, an absurd accusation to make. Of course the left is going to push for their political goals. The question of how to prevent politically motivated mass shootings is, by any reasonable definition, going to at least involvereally care about the far right going on shooting sprees? That the motivation for their criticism of people not doing enough is based around the desire to 'own libs', as opposed to a very honest fear that they might become the next statistic?
That doesn't seem too likely in my mind.
It's always been obvious in the case of the Republicans, what with them making noise about it being 'too soon' to discuss solutions and accusing the Democrats of being partisan for trying to introduce gun control legislation as a potential solution. The Democratic response, on the occasions where they have responded, has been to accuse the Republicans of being morally culpable in the shootings to some extent in their refusal to pass preventative legislation. These basic facts are not in dispute, I would think, even if you might dispute the implied moral judgement I'm making.
What has become more common, however, is that in the past few years as the motivations of these attacks (Which is nearly always White Fascism) get increasing exposure, the Democrats increasingly have begun to mirror the Republicans talking points when the left starts to criticize them on the basis of their refusal to actively deplatform the figures who spread the ideology that leads to these incidents.
After a shooting, any attempts at criticism and offering solutions (because let's be frank here, the left is in no place to introduce legislation) are shouted down with accusations of partisanship and 'taking advantage of a tragedy'. The implied statement being that the left wing only cares about 'scoring points', of taking advantage of the incident to push for their political goals.
Which is, of course, an absurd accusation to make. Of course the left is going to push for their political goals. The question of how to prevent politically motivated mass shootings is, by any reasonable definition, going to at least involvereally care about the far right going on shooting sprees? That the motivation for their criticism of people not doing enough is based around the desire to 'own libs', as opposed to a very honest fear that they might become the next statistic?
That doesn't seem too likely in my mind.
Abbazorkzog
New member
We need to start calling them terrorist attacks. They are not simply "shootings" or "gun violence," these are premeditated attacks with extremist ideology propelling them. They are not "shooters" they are terrorists.
Nyvis
Active member
I feel like gun control is a bit of a smokescreen. Yes, the US's gun laws are probably a bit too lax. And the gun culture built around them to defend them and sell more weapons is absolutely toxic. But I think the republicans kinda have a point when they say that "guns don't kill people, people kill people". Someone still has to pull the trigger, and both the right and center left are quick to deflect away from considering the why in their own ways.
Be it mental health, isolation or straight up ideology, there's something rotten beyond the availability of guns.
Be it mental health, isolation or straight up ideology, there's something rotten beyond the availability of guns.
On the one hand, in an abstract sense, I support a... very different sort of gun culture than what we have today. I'm not going to go into details, but suffice to say that I do think guns should be available, but I don't think that it should be easier to get a gun than a car.
On the other hand, I feel like focusing on guns draws attention away from the real problem here, which is that there is a malevolent ideology which promotes these terrorist acts. We need to hold right wing responsible for the terrorism they support, promote, and enable. We can talk about the guns after we do that.
On the other hand, I feel like focusing on guns draws attention away from the real problem here, which is that there is a malevolent ideology which promotes these terrorist acts. We need to hold right wing responsible for the terrorism they support, promote, and enable. We can talk about the guns after we do that.
Nyvis
Active member
Strigix said:
To be fair, the current gun culture and that right wing are pretty chummy. And success in passing some common sense federal gun regulation would probably put a dent in their ideology. The idea of "the man" taking defense in his own hands can easily be extended from self defense to lashing out against perceived threats to their view of society.
Going all in on gun control being the whole solution to the problem is definitely wrong, but knocking down the NRA and its propaganda from its pedestal would probably still be a good improvement.